Linda,
I would like to access copies of the Zacatecas records that you have compiled. I' m not sure if this is the correct procedure for communicating such requests. Thank you in advance, Raymond Medrano
In a great many records circa 1775 Rincón de Romos the cura (Pablo
Romo de Vivar) consistently puts Joseph instead of José on marriage
records. He even prefers to George to Jorge, and frequently makes
other similar substitutions, such as Theresa for Teresa or Phelipe for
Felipe. Why is this? Was Joseph an earlier variation or is this just
the priest insisting on Anglicizing the names?
In a great many records circa 1775 Rincón de Romos the cura (Pablo
Romo de Vivar) consistently puts Joseph instead of José on marriage
records. He even prefers to George to Jorge, and frequently makes
other similar substitutions, such as Theresa for Teresa or Phelipe for
Felipe. Why is this? Was Joseph an earlier variation or is this just
the priest insisting on Anglicizing the names?
Stuart,
These are not anglicisms. Until recently (Vatican Council II), the offical language of the Catholic Church was Latin. Thus 'Ph' instead of 'F' would have been appropriate.
Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Armstrong"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:52:59 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] José Joseph
In a great many records circa 1775 Rincón de Romos the cura (Pablo
Romo de Vivar) consistently puts Joseph instead of José on marriage
records. He even prefers to George to Jorge, and frequently makes
other similar substitutions, such as Theresa for Teresa or Phelipe for
Felipe. Why is this? Was Joseph an earlier variation or is this just
the priest insisting on Anglicizing the names?
Stuart,
These are not anglicisms. Until recently (Vatican Council II), the offical language of the Catholic Church was Latin. Thus 'Ph' instead of 'F' would have been appropriate.
Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Armstrong"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:52:59 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] José Joseph
In a great many records circa 1775 Rincón de Romos the cura (Pablo
Romo de Vivar) consistently puts Joseph instead of José on marriage
records. He even prefers to George to Jorge, and frequently makes
other similar substitutions, such as Theresa for Teresa or Phelipe for
Felipe. Why is this? Was Joseph an earlier variation or is this just
the priest insisting on Anglicizing the names?
HI Stuart, about the Spanish in colonial times, not exactly about anglicanizing them, we got to remember we are talking about Old Castilian our ancestors spoke! Our Spanish we know today (Castellano) is more recent which was heavily changed in the Bourbón Reforms in the early 1800's. It is why in only some parts, of Méjico we hear Vosotros, (not talking about Vos) which totally means something different like Tú) The change plus the independece caused the language or dialects to slightly change. Plus there were no rules on grammer, during this time, no one really set the rules (not entirely ture) on how Castellano was written. Basically it could really be how it sounded literally. The Bourbons really changed our spanish society but in a good way, several hundreds of laws, rules and etc passed. Hence our two surname system (father and mother) before this the reforms it only followed the father's name because it was compuesto.
Thank you. I didn't realize Spanish had changed and it was just "Old
Spanish" (why not? all languages change) and I don't know anything
about the Bourbón reforms. Guess I need to go back to high school and
revisit some history classes.
Friday, March 20, 2009, 7:37:50 PM, you wrote:
> HI Stuart, about the Spanish in colonial times, not exactly about
> anglicanizing them, we got to remember we are talking about Old
> Castilian our ancestors spoke! Our Spanish we know today
> (Castellano) is more recent which was heavily changed in the Bourbón
> Reforms in the early 1800's.
The Bourb~n reforms were an important time in Spanish History, they brought the french political ideas to Spain, how to run the govt, many laws passed, which eventually led to the downfall of the Spanish empire, the ideas of Montesquie, Locke, and many enlightenment thinkers reached New Spain, and ignited the revoultion against Spain. There are many books dedicated just to this period of time it started in the 1770's-ca. 1805 not sure extact on dates right now. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
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José Joseph
In a great many records circa 1775 Rincón de Romos the cura (Pablo
Romo de Vivar) consistently puts Joseph instead of José on marriage
records. He even prefers to George to Jorge, and frequently makes
other similar substitutions, such as Theresa for Teresa or Phelipe for
Felipe. Why is this? Was Joseph an earlier variation or is this just
the priest insisting on Anglicizing the names?
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
José Joseph
It wasn't just this priest and this church.
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Stuart Armstrong
Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 8:52 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] José Joseph
In a great many records circa 1775 Rincón de Romos the cura (Pablo
Romo de Vivar) consistently puts Joseph instead of José on marriage
records. He even prefers to George to Jorge, and frequently makes
other similar substitutions, such as Theresa for Teresa or Phelipe for
Felipe. Why is this? Was Joseph an earlier variation or is this just
the priest insisting on Anglicizing the names?
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
José Joseph
Stuart,
These are not anglicisms. Until recently (Vatican Council II), the offical language of the Catholic Church was Latin. Thus 'Ph' instead of 'F' would have been appropriate.
Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Armstrong"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:52:59 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] José Joseph
In a great many records circa 1775 Rincón de Romos the cura (Pablo
Romo de Vivar) consistently puts Joseph instead of José on marriage
records. He even prefers to George to Jorge, and frequently makes
other similar substitutions, such as Theresa for Teresa or Phelipe for
Felipe. Why is this? Was Joseph an earlier variation or is this just
the priest insisting on Anglicizing the names?
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
José Joseph
The ph comes from greek though
________________________________
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org on behalf of Jaime R. Alvarado
Sent: Fri 3/20/2009 9:52 AM
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] José Joseph
Stuart,
These are not anglicisms. Until recently (Vatican Council II), the offical language of the Catholic Church was Latin. Thus 'Ph' instead of 'F' would have been appropriate.
Jaime
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Armstrong"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:52:59 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] José Joseph
In a great many records circa 1775 Rincón de Romos the cura (Pablo
Romo de Vivar) consistently puts Joseph instead of José on marriage
records. He even prefers to George to Jorge, and frequently makes
other similar substitutions, such as Theresa for Teresa or Phelipe for
Felipe. Why is this? Was Joseph an earlier variation or is this just
the priest insisting on Anglicizing the names?
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
José Joseph
HI Stuart, about the Spanish in colonial times, not exactly about anglicanizing them, we got to remember we are talking about Old Castilian our ancestors spoke! Our Spanish we know today (Castellano) is more recent which was heavily changed in the Bourbón Reforms in the early 1800's. It is why in only some parts, of Méjico we hear Vosotros, (not talking about Vos) which totally means something different like Tú) The change plus the independece caused the language or dialects to slightly change. Plus there were no rules on grammer, during this time, no one really set the rules (not entirely ture) on how Castellano was written. Basically it could really be how it sounded literally. The Bourbons really changed our spanish society but in a good way, several hundreds of laws, rules and etc passed. Hence our two surname system (father and mother) before this the reforms it only followed the father's name because it was compuesto.
-Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
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José Joseph
Hello Daniel and others,
Thank you. I didn't realize Spanish had changed and it was just "Old
Spanish" (why not? all languages change) and I don't know anything
about the Bourbón reforms. Guess I need to go back to high school and
revisit some history classes.
Friday, March 20, 2009, 7:37:50 PM, you wrote:
> HI Stuart, about the Spanish in colonial times, not exactly about
> anglicanizing them, we got to remember we are talking about Old
> Castilian our ancestors spoke! Our Spanish we know today
> (Castellano) is more recent which was heavily changed in the Bourbón
> Reforms in the early 1800's.
--
Best regards,
Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
José Joseph
The Bourb~n reforms were an important time in Spanish History, they brought the french political ideas to Spain, how to run the govt, many laws passed, which eventually led to the downfall of the Spanish empire, the ideas of Montesquie, Locke, and many enlightenment thinkers reached New Spain, and ignited the revoultion against Spain. There are many books dedicated just to this period of time it started in the 1770's-ca. 1805 not sure extact on dates right now. -Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows® connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119463819/direct/01/